Canceling Reload Animations

[armithaeus]

Hi,

is it allowed to constantly cancel the reload animation (briefly switch to another weapon and then back) to increase the shot rate (typically with snipers, shotguns)?

If you shouldnt be aware of what I mean:


Is it allowed to macro that?

I am asking because a player is using this constantly and it provides imo an unfair advantage.

Thanks

[[RC]Hunter]

Yes, it is allowed.

[Nino-6-years]

I want to put in my two cents.

There is quite a difference between manual canceling and using macros for canceling.
Watch this video (from 2:58 to 3:55 ):
He is shooting 3 clips (á 8 rounds) with the NS2000 using different technics:

1 clip ( 2:58 - 3:12 ) - normal fire rate
2 clip ( 3:16 - 3:28 ) - manually canceling reload animation = high fire rate
3 clip ( 3:45 - 3:55 ) - using macros for automatic canceling = even higher fire rate than with manual canceling

Here is another video of someone playing with macros, but the most important part is the code in the end of the video ( 3:33 ), not the gameplay:
He explains how to set up macros. Pay attention to the timing he uses ( 3:58 ). So would anyone consider the usage of a programm, that automatically performs different tasks in just a few milliseconds as fair play? And keep in mind, that a player couldn‘t accomplish that manually (unless you are a super human or something ... but you are probably not, cause you would‘t play videogames if you were one )

And here are the last two videos for today. First watch this clip ( ) from 0:38 to 0:50 to get an idea of how the PKM LMG works in terms of fire rate and recoil/precision without macros. Notice the constant fire and the aim moving automatically up due to the recoil.
Now, manually you would have the opportunity to shot in volleys to preserve the precision, but that would reduce your fire rate, right? So you either fire more bullets, but with less precision, or vice versa.

Now compare it to this:
The macros allow to cancel and start the fire fast enough to nearly imitate the constant fire without losing precision. Again, this would be impossible manually.

Summing up - I think <b>manual canceling</b> for a faster shooting rate is ok, since it requires the actual abilitys/skill of the player. But using macros for the mentioned effect should be handled similar to cheats/hacks, because it‘s not the player, who is accomplishing higher fire rates throug his skills, but the software making the magic happen by <b>automatic canceling</b> ... just like cheats/hacks doing the work instead of the player.

[Nino-6-years]

Oh, and there is one thing i forgot to mention:
Macros usually are noticeable on shotguns like the 870, SPAS-12 and NS2000 due to the high fire rate, as you may know already, and less noticeable on other weapons, although they enhance the weapons effectiveness as much as for shotguns (and <b>beyond the manual possibilities</b>).

But macros do not only affect weapons, but can also be programmed for aiming, movement or special maneuvers, which again may give the player different advantages against players without macros.

In my opinion macros are unfair tools in online-games. Not as much like serious hacks, but still they are tools, which are making impossible things possible for their users ...

<b>Keep the gameplay fair, Ladies and Gentlemen - Don't use macros</b>

[armithaeus]

imo these are abuses with or without macros, since the skill required to do so is very low compared to the advantage you would gain.

@nino: how would a macro help with aiming?

[Nino-6-years]

imo these are abuses with or without macros, since the skill required to do so is very low compared to the advantage you would gain.

Well, i agree, that this is kind of an abuse, but:
1.) If it requires low skill, then people could simply learn it and start using this method.
2.) It does only make sense for three weapons, and those are the shotguns 870, SPAS12 and NS2000.
Canceling the reload animation doesnt' make sense for LMG's, assault rifles or pistols, because they are automatic guns already. And the sniper rifles don't benefit from canceling the reload animation, because you won't be able to shot anyways, even if you rifle seems to be ready.
I don't know if you tried it, but after you shot from an sniper rifle (except the VSS which is automatic) and switch to the secondary weapon and than back to the rifle, the animation gets canceled and your soldier stands back in his "ready to aim" position, but you won't be able to aim or shot, because you have to wait until the actual realoding time runs out, even though the animation is ready. So it doesn't make sense to cancel the animation for sniper rifles either.
As i said, there are only three weapons which actually benefit from canceling it. I think it's not that big of a deal, when somebody is MANUALLY canceling those three shotguns.

@nino: how would a macro help with aiming?

I don't know if this applies for all macros/auto-hotkeys, but some do allow more "complex" programming, than just pressing buttons. Here is an example:
With the right programm you could make your mouse trace a certain color. If you take a screenshot from the game and get the color codes with a graphic-programm for certain colors, the mouse would move to this specific color. Take a look at this images:

<img src="http://cache.gawkerassets.com/assets/im ... efield.jpg">

For example it would make sense to get the color of the russian medics red barrett or the orange of the SPECTAC assalut soldier. During the game you could activate this macro and your aim would automaticly move to the specific color and trace it. At this point you can simply headshot those soldier classes.
And this is just one example for aiming. There are more possibilities to cheat by using macros and not the "old-fashioned" hacks.
As i said before, it does not only affect fire rates, recoils, movemnet, but goes even further to aiming/tracing (which you already could call aimboting?).

[armithaeus]

I thought I had the wrong timing for snipers (at least I couldnt get them to work within 2min trying).

For shotguns it's OP, since you can avoid 1 shotgun shot by sidestepping, but not two or more (if the guy using it can aim a little). If you have an opponent using it, it forces you to switch to an instant killing weapon, which is annoying.

What you are describing as macro is imo an aimbot. Doesn't matter where it retrieves the position of your opponent from. (probably a worse aimbot than one that simply retrieves the position of your opponents by checking the opengl/directx draw calls, but still an aimbot.)

[Nino-6-years]

For shotguns it's OP, since you can avoid 1 shotgun shot by sidestepping, but not two or more (if the guy using it can aim a little). If you have an opponent using it, it forces you to switch to an instant killing weapon, which is annoying.

Personally they don't bother me that much, since they are uncommon in my opinion. But i agree: Canceling the animation makes those specific shotguns overpowered ... and annoying

I wonder why the reload time of sniper rifles can't be canceled, but shotguns can be abused ...

What you are describing as macro is imo an aimbot. Doesn't matter where it retrieves the position of your opponent from. (probably a worse aimbot than one that simply retrieves the position of your opponents by checking the opengl/directx draw calls, but still an aimbot.)

It does automatically aim, so you are right about the aimbot, i guess. I justed wanted to differentiate between common hacks (changing data in the game files etc.) and additional software (like macros/ auto-hotkeys etc.). So macros actually aren't hacks, but i consider their usage as cheating, simply because they provide unfair advantages. That's why i placed the question mark in the previous post (<i>Nino: [...] which you already could call aimboting?</i>).

Back in the days, when my clan had his own server, we actually warned obsessive macro-users and banned them, if the warning has been ignored. Depending on what the macros were used for, of course, but three or for bans did happen. Aiming is just one example. )))

[[RC]Hunter]

A macro helping you on the keyboard functions cannot be detected automatically.

Unless measuring shooting rates with certain weapons. It is not an easy task to code a detection for it separately.

Anything helping you to aim, does a code injection and can be detected - therefore called an aimbot.

In both cases it does not matter how the fast and accurate kills are generated. If code injections are not detected, I use my killrate algorythm for it. You both were affected by in the past already ... lol

I consider the reload animation abort capabilities on the mentioned shotguns a game bug by design. In other words you could warn and possible ban a player from a server for game glitching. But for this you need to be on the server itself and have a spectactor mode option handy in order to review the account in question. Getting shoot while playing in the opposing team and trusting the visualization of Bad Company´s killcam ... well this is a different topic...

Spectator mode is not part of BC2, therefore an almost impossible task from the administration point of view.

[Nino-6-years]

But for this you need to be on the server itself and have a spectactor mode option handy in order to review the account in question. Getting shoot while playing in the opposing team and trusting the visualization of Bad Company´s killcam ... well this is a different topic...

A little offtopic:
How about recordings? Let's pretend i was playing on the server a randomly recorded someone who seems to be cheating. Could you review this player? Not all players are making their cheats obvious to others, so algorythms wouldn't work and statistics wouldn't look suspect. As you mentioned already, the question is if you can trust the graphics in the video footage, but it still could be used as an evidence.